Nature and the natural environment figure prominently in the planning for The Great River Project. We welcome your input as we move forward. Just fill in the Leave a Reply form below. Thank you for your interest in the project. Return to the blog to see what other topics you can comment on.

34 Comments

  • I can’t wait to feel like it’s perfectly fine to go swimming in the river, and to eat the fish and clams… How do we engage the farmers up the Minnesota River?

    • Perhaps we let our grocery dollars do the talking? Let the Minnesota farmers know how important sustainable agricultural practices are to us city dwellers. Support the farmers markets, and petition our local groceries–even the big names buy from the locales–to carry local sustainable options.

      Or we could start amping up our move to urban agriculture?

      I don’t like it but the paradigm we’re in perpetuates bad-management practices up stream simply because it is economically beneficial, not necessarily to the farmer, but for the seed, fertilizer and equipment folks. 😉

      Cheers–Chris

  • it would be good if, somewhere along the river, there could be a rink that could be on the river or near the riverbanks where people could skate in the trees or along the river in an area that is just natural and not “designed” to be cute.

    Don’t DESIGN this river. Let it stay as wild as possible. keep it simple.

    • I’ve often thought that the upper part of Crosby Lake would make a great skating rink, and it would not be difficult to get a small Zamboni down there from where the creeps hang out.

      • Interesting idea with the skating pond. Does that work with shallow lake ecology? I hope so. And it is out of the wind unlike most lakes in MN. We have got to get more people down here so the creeps move someplace else. I noticed that people choose the first parking lot and park all over the place around there instead of going to the further lots with 40+ empty parking spaces.
        Would skating ponds work on the defunct marinas that are too filled with silt? Could we get one at the underpass at Otto and Shepard, Island station, the confluence?

        • …or even Little and Big Pig’s Eye Lake could be winter activity centers. The Battlecreek Rec Center is already a hub of winter activities with the ski hill and their pond. Once the Red Rock Rail station is operational at Lower Afton, this little-used section of St. Paul’s public lands stands to have many a chance to entice commuters to stay a little while, go for a skate or a crosscountry ski?

          Given our historical proclivity to engineer the river banks, not to mention our famous winters, skating could become a real transit option. A commuters canal. Cut from Lower Afton/Pigs Eye running under the Mounds Park Bluffs-effecting to animate the Lower Landing area, and terminating at the LRT station in Downtown St. Paul. Basically a skaters road running along side the rails.

          If the Canadian’s can do it on the Rideau Canal in Ottawa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rideau_Canal) and the Dutch on their extensive canal system (http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/04/video-of-people-enjo.html) why can’t we. All we need to do is start thinking about what we want from our city. Ask ourselves how we want to live. This should be the guide in our Master Planning.

          Cheers–Chris

      • I agree with Tonya that in theory a skating rink would be a great way to get more people down to Crosby Lake, especially in winter when the number of visitors is down and limited to almost exclusively cross-country skiers. I also agree with her concern over the ecological effects that this may cause to the lake. I believe a very thorough examination of the ecology of the lake would need to be done prior to some things such as an ice rink would be put in place.
        I also think that maybe instead of trying to draw people down with more sport activities, we should consider showcasing the great natural environment that this park has to offer. After all, one of the main reasons people go to these river parks is to escape they urban environment for a while. Crosby Farms has a great natural environment to offer that has a great wetlands and wooded area that can let one forget that they are in the city at all.
        A great way to feature this would be to build an educational center in the existing open space of the park. Along with this educational pavilion, there could be improved signage around the park highlighting particular species of plants and animals that inhabit the wetlands. Also a geological history of how Crosby Lake was formed. This would no only draw more typical park-goers, but also could be used by St. Paul Public Schools as a great educational tool. It would give the children the hands on learning experience by seeing the wetlands and wildlife in person without having to travel very far. This will also show the children and community that they need not travel far to have this natural experience, but that it is in their own back yard.
        One of the best places of this being implemented is in Portland, OR. One of their main objectives when revitalizing their river front was to expose the community to the great ecology of the river and to restore it to its more natural state, allowing more wildlife to return.

  • Preserving the river corridor as a natural area should be a given for the process. Development of river edge amenities should be minimal points of contact with the river. If anyone needs a good rational as to why the corridor should be preserved, a good read would be Bringing Nature Home by Douglas Tallamy, Timber Press 2007.

  • Would love to see DNR, Ramsey County, and National Park Service have a more active day-to-day presence in terms of managing the eco-systems within our Great River Park area of interest. There just insn’t enough $$$ at the local level to properly manage the high value resources and knock those invasives species back.

    Would love to see Island Station become mixed use public/private hub for entertainment, eco-education, and a tourism day trip jumping-point. Make it gorund zero for demonstrating a can-do partnership of agencies & private sector.

    DNR Fish Hatchery near pig’s eye could become a multi-jurisdictional central maintenance facility for Fed, State, County & Local enviro and eco-maintenance staff. Forestry, Aquatic, invasiv species control, etc. Limits the footprint of having several maitenance hubs for each agency.

    Rmasey County is looking to upgrade Battle Creek as winter ski destination over next 10 years…where are they at with signing on to a joint powers eco-mgmt strategy? Seems to me we would all get more bang for our buck if there was a pact that helps each govt partner focus on what they do best, rather than saying “i only work in my Park area” and “you only manage in your trail corridor”.

    DNR might be our conservation, law enforcement, water quality go-to.

    Maybe Ramsey County could be the primary agency for eco-frinedly outdoor recreation mgmt planning in the ENTIRE river corridor not just Battle Creek?

    National Parks Service could be the #1 agency for natural history & eco-education?

    City could focus on removing invasives and planting natives?

    Let’s not worry so much about Park Boundaries, but focus more on maximizing outcomes for the taxpayer. Besides, mother nature really doesn’t subscribe to these boundaries anyhow.

  • Restoring and enhancing the natural environment are a must. As our understanding of the river as resource change, so should our natural environment. Older industrial buildings and areas are new opportunities for natural resources (rain gardens, wildlife refuges, not condos!) The instrinsic benefits may not be readily felt, but will become more and more important with climate change and population growth in the Metro area.

  • I am, and have been, a regular visitor to Crosby Park for over ten years. Crosby park is a unique place and has the potential to be a very fine showcase of a natural Minnesota lowland forest. I think development threatens the natural characteristics of Crosby Park and I would am a suporter of park management with a small footprint.
    I think safety concerns at the park are valid and grounded and can be addressed without sanatizing the nature from the park. Part of park safety is having people around to look out for each other. It’s a challange to increase usage and reduce footprint. This is our task.

  • Let the natural environment be what attracts people to this park. Walking trails and bike paths, along with the birds and animals and vegetation of nature is all that is needed.

    • Larry’s comment is laudable sentiment as far as it goes, however this park will be less than it should be and less successful as a safe place for those bikers and walkers if we do not provide a park for all desired users from our diverse city. We are not talking the Boundary Waters here because it is stated as a given that the Mississippi is a working river. It is a National Park, but it is in the midst of our city. A wonderful reality! I can think of people who want to swim, canoe, sail and myriad other water activities, worship (the sun or your god) , dine or have a quick lunch, sit on a park bench or have two benches, one facing the other for a small gathering, picnic, fish (maybe not keep them), touch and understand our historical roots or the realities of our river like a barge or a water treatment plant. How about the elderly and their caregivers. Some people can’t be brought to the river on public transit, walking or biking. How about those world citizens that might want to visit what could be a world class park? Are we going to say they can’t use their rental car to visit? Yes, I hope some parking will be provided or is available outside the critical area, even inside for designated purpose cars. How about those who simply won’t go by walking, running or biking. Maybe they live or work in the Como or the east side neighborhoods and don’t have the time to walk, run or bike and still be presentable ‘or welcome’ at lunch. Most importantly, how about safe activities and environment for our children. No, this park should be for everyone, not just walkers, bikers and runners. A park for everyone will be a safer park for everyone. If we do this right,the park will be as diverse as the project goals of natural, urban and connected intend. The Great River Park Master Plan will be successful if it begins to overcome the thrust of history that has cut us off, in so many ways, from the river. Think of it, the city has a chance to ‘annex’ for safe use, enjoyment and appreciation hundreds of acres of park land that are in large part the responsibility of the National Park Service to maintain. We should take that along with the ultimate responsibility to enjoy it respectfully and in a sustainable manner for the future.

      • Hmmm. I didn’t read that much into the “laudible” statement on having nature be the attraction. Since the river is a natural amenity, obviously this entire project recognizes that fact. I appreciate natural settings for their beauty, wildlife, and the opportunity to connect with nature. It’s great when we can do that in an already urbanized setting, and not have to travel further out to find nature.

    • Hi Cristel: The comments speak for themselves and we are listening (reading). Additional opportunities for input at community pulic sessions are upcoming in March and May. In the meantime continue to provide input through this site and through your representatives on the community task force – district councils and other groups that represent residents, businesses and the users of Great River Park.

      Thanks

  • I would just like to comment on the sandstone caves. I know people fear them and want them closed for good, but with the right care they could be a wonderful learning tool for future (and present) generations. I know they are not all salvageable, nor should they be, but a few of the easily accessed and better preserved caves would be a wonderful addition to the park. They are part of the growth along the river, they are part of the local history, and they have been here for 150 years or more. It would be a shame to loose all of the original caves because of fear. If fear is the driving force, then don’t we fear that someone will wander into the River? A National Park should honor the history, it’s resources, and help us learn about the natural elements that form this area. Wouldn’t it be wonderful on a hot summer day to wander into a 52 degree cave to cool off, or in the middle of winter when you are snow shoeing or cross country skiing to enter a cave to warm your face for a few minutes? I would like to hear some discussion on this.

    • Thanks for your comment Donna. We have also heard from others that the caves are a unique geographic and cultural resource in Saint Paul. Aside from what we have heard about their danger, they have a unique place in history – native american and early european settler shelters, storage of foods, making of beer and cheese, etc. The concepts we are exploring include ways of allowing people to experience these cultural resources.

  • Great River Park Master Plan Must Protect Most Natural Areas

    The Mississippi River and the land adjacent to the river are valuable public assets which must be protected and utilized in a responsible manner. While there will be competing land use desires for industrial, commercial, residential, and both active and passive parks, one thing must be consistent: all future development must protect the natural environment and improve water quality. Towards that end, “Most Natural Area Protection” must be part of the consideration when determining appropriate land use.

    The “Great River” running though Saint Paul is part of the 72 mile long Mississippi National River and Recreation Area. It is the only major national park running through the core of a major metropolitan area. The National Park system exists “to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wild life therein and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.”

    In Saint Paul’s urban environment, it is reasonable to expect the Mississippi River will be used for both recreation and commerce, and that river-front property will be used for public parks and private business. Therefore, because Saint Paul’s Great River is in a National River and Recreation Area, it is extremely important to “Protect” the few natural areas that still exist.

    Mississippi River Gorge, Hidden Falls, Crosby Farm, Lilydale, Battle Creek, and Pigs Eye Lake are regional parks adjacent to the river. The Metropolitan Council deems these natural areas to be significant to the entire Twin Cities region. They are St. Paul’s most natural, wildlife-friendly, open-space next to the river. They are the green forests that help clean and cool our city’s polluted air. They are Saint Paul’s pristine sanctuaries, not only for animals, but for residents and visitors who seek refuge from the hustle and bustle of city life.

    These six river-front parks are considered “passive in nature.” Saint Paul’s other major parks are “active” by design, where people golf and play tennis, rent canoes and swim at crowded beaches and pools, play team sports, ride noisy carnival attractions, and visit the zoo and conservatory and hear rock concerts. It is imperative that these river-front parks are protected in their most natural state, as passive open space. Arguments for more active use and for commercial development within the parks must be rejected as inappropriate for a National River Recreation Area. A restaurant in an historic lodge within a National Park is just fine when cities are hundreds of miles away, but a proposed restaurant in Crosby Park proper is absurd, when West Seventh restaurants are just blocks away.

    I respectfully request that park staff, city planners, landscape designers and consultants working on Saint Paul’s Great River Park Plan designate Mississippi River Gorge, Hidden Falls, Crosby Farm, Lilydale, Battle Creek and the Pigs Eye Lake for Most Natural Area Protection. As such, the passive open space would be kept as natural as possible for the benefit of our environment, the wildlife, Saint Paul taxpayers and residents, and future generations who will value the peace and beauty of these regional river-front parks.

    Thank you for the opportunity to review and comment on the current draft of Saint Paul’s Great River Park Master Plan.

    Juliet Branca

    • Juliet, I agree. As a regular user of the Crosby and Hidden Falls Parks, I am worried that adding commercial activities or “adventure park” features would destroy the unique landscape and wildlife habitat these parks contain.

      Thanks for the posting.

  • The theme of the Great River Park is “more natural, more urban, more accessible,” so it would be a shame if we ignored one of these goals in order to exclusively preserve another. It is possible to make passive open space more active without damaging the natural features of the parks. I strongly believe that the natural aspects of these currently passive parks (especially Hidden Falls Regional Park) are, indeed, our most treasured assets. However, I also believe that through the use of sustainable and eco-friendly materials, these assets can be preserved, while giving these spaces a more active and dynamic feel. This would, in turn, draw more attention to the parks, without harming the environment. It is important to remember that the social assets of a park are just as essential as its environmental assets, especially if some of the overall goals are community involvement and recreation.

    I propose we use recycled wood products, such as Trex or UPM ProFi, to build either a “neighborhood/community learning center” (where members of the neighborhood or schools can bring children to learn about the park and its natural features) or a tasteful pavilion with a stage (where people from the community will be attracted down to the riverfront by live bands, speakers, etc.). The whole point of having a park like the Hidden Falls is to attract visitors and benefit the surrounding community. We must remember that we have a diverse community, which calls for a diverse park system with much to offer. Through the use of sustainable materials, we can make Hidden Falls Park a diverse space, without sacrificing it’s beautiful, natural environment.

    • Very thoughtful comments Katie. This is the great challenge of the master plan – how to balance the ecological needs and social desires of a diverse community.

  • I would like to say that Crosby Farm is already a very strong environmental asset and what would happen if that was enhanced and capitalized on? Instead of designing on top of the already environmentally rich nature of the park could the plan integrate the wetlands and lakes within it so that the park flows together with nature so that there is not a clear division between the natural landscape and the human landscape? Focusing on the environmental aspect of Crosby Farm will help create a unique park for people to visit. It will present a new experience for the public and this environmental focus can flow over into the surrounding parks, such as Hidden Falls, so that the Mississippi Riverfront and Parks that make it up can remain natural and benefit the Twin Cities. Do not get me wrong, things can be built at Crosby Farm but they should not be harmful to the environment because once those wetlands and other environmental aspects are gone, it is nearly impossible to get them back.

  • The park system that runs through St. Paul along the Mississippi is an asset to the community that cannot be ignored. These areas allow for the integration of the surrounding neighborhoods with a body of water that is essential to the local ecosystems as well as one that has shaped the face of the Twin Cities area. It has provided substantial economic opportunities for the area that make our cities what they are today. With the gifts that this great river has given to us in mind, I believe a special plan of action should be taken into effect to give back to the natural landscape: to preserve and protect an area that provides so much for us. The St. Paul Great River Park system should emphasize becoming more natural by undertaking a cleanup program aimed to eradicate areas with underused or unused structures and turning them into areas aimed at keeping ground water that runs into the Mississippi clean. There are large amount of impervious concrete in use for roadways, parking lot, and pavilion structures. With the developing technology that is within our grasp, we should take advantage of sustainable materials that will allow the absorption of flood and rainwater. This reabsorbing process is a natural way of keeping pollutants out of the Mississippi River, as well as keeping them from moving and collecting downstream. Furthermore, an effort to plant runoff gardens in areas that have high levels of water flow will provide for a natural cleanup of this water and natural habitats for local ecosystems. Planting trees along the waters edge will keep the water temperatures down for fish habitats, allowing them a greater chance of survival. There are many simple ways that we as a community can give back to our great river while continuing to develop the success of the park, socially speaking. By taking these initiatives our park systems can and will flourish.

  • I’ve always enjoyed the woods and the natural isolated feeling it provides. When I first started living and working in the cities I became overwhelmed. I missed the natural features, and all I saw was pavement and buildings. One day I decided to visit Minnehaha Falls and I was relieved. Walking down into the gorge and following the trails until I hit the Mississippi River. It was an escape from the hustle and bustle of the city.

    The natural features, the dirt, the trails, the trees, the environment provided me that escape. I believe other parks along the Mississippi River should provide that same feeling. Sometimes people just want to get away like I did, whether it’s for lunch or the entire afternoon and they don’t have time to travel far to get there. Minnehaha Falls is a great example of forgetting you’re in the middle of the city and the importance of the environment.

    A way to draw people to the parks and improve the overall riverfront park system is to add more paths and trails for hiking, biking, walking, skateboarding, dog walking, and jogging. Like the previous post, more trails would be beneficial to the diverse community. Trails allow people to weave through the trees, get exercise, absorb their surroundings, and even see Minnesota as if it was hundreds of years ago when there weren’t any skyscrapers. The trails and paths can also connect to the other parks along the riverfront as well as the people in the community. Portland, OR is a great example of connecting the linear riverfront parks with each other using the Greenway Plan. What would happen if St. Paul implemented this around Hidden Falls, Crosby Farm, Pig’s Eye, and all of the riverfront parks? What about connecting to Minneapolis’ riverfront and parks, like the Grand Rounds?

    The Mississippi River is one of the great rivers of the world. Keeping it natural with trails and paths will provide the peaceful escape from the city, as well as connect to the surrounding areas.

  • I believe one key aspect of maintaining and understanding a river is through water quality. Personally I think quality natural water always portrays the picture of an open landscape for wildlife to live and roam, as well as a place where families can fish and swim on a warm summer day. I believe we can take this beautiful imagery one step further and honor the goals of the Clean Water Act’s “fishable and swimmable” objectives.

    With recent reports in the Star Tribunes article “Sediment Strangling our Rivers,” I feel the Great River Park Plan should look strongly into what type of sediment monitoring and assessments are being done to keep our river clean and full of wildlife. The confluence of the Minnesota River and the Mississippi River at Fort Snelling possesses strong potential for pollution running right through St. Paul’s part of the river. It is up to us to pressure the state of Minnesota to abide and adhere to the regulations of the Clean Water Act.

    I grew up in Mendota Heights, MN and biking and climbing along the river’s edge created memories I will cherish for the rest of my life. It is important we keep these areas as clean as we can. Minnesotans should take pride in the fact that we are so blessed to be at the beginning of the Mississippi. Water quality correlates directly with the natural aesthetics of any river.

    I am very proud and interested in the Great River Park Plan. I have always felt the St. Paul Parks and Recreation Department has done a great job all over the city. My hope is that specifically the Barr Engineering Company and the entire Great River Team can strategically develop long term solutions to get the Mississippi River “fishable and swimmable” once again.

  • Many people’s favorite thing about rivers is going there to feel alive! What I mean by this is that we live in an environment congested with people, buildings, cars, or in other words, only things not natural to Earth. Despite this we still have a tendency to destroy what we have left as natural space and act in selfish ways to build structures on it. Most of us take interest in wild life but we have a tendency to overcrowd it so it slowly disappears because we get so stuck on what we need and not think about what the right thing is for wild life.
    Not by any means do I mean we can’t build anything near the river but we should have set standards on the distance away from the river construction can occur so nature can grow and not be interrupted. Walk paths and trails are also a great way we can utilize the space in a healthy manner. If we can keep our structures away from certain parts of the river and only use trails and places to rest we can connect the trails into the surrounding neighborhoods. This does not go towards all areas along the river because we want people using the river as a social asset but we need to create space for only nature and having it welcome us into it with a relaxed atmosphere.

    Good document on how natural lanscaping can help protect our natural areas http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/remediation_hudson_pdf/hrebch13.pdf

    • I am writing to urge you to pass on the plan to build soccer fields at the Victoria Park site. My daughter and I have been living in the W7th neighborhood for four years and have grown to love it. I’ve always been drawn to the Mississippi River and love hearing the barges on summer nights. A natural park that is accessible to all people in the neighborhood would be optimal. Considering how unique the landscape is in this area, I believe everything should be done to preserve the natural beauty. Fences, lights, and artificial grass are not things we need.

  • The natural environment in the GRP corridor is a complex ecosystem whose inhabitants are adapting to the changing conditions within the system in real time. Regardless of the cause of the changes (natural or anthropocentric), native (and invasive) species will adapt in many ways to new conditions or they will cease to exist there. This is a natural process that has been happening for the entire history of life on earth, of which human influence is only a blink of an eye.

    It is quite obvious that watershed land use change to agricultural and urban cover has greatly altered this river system and increased sediment loadings, but this is only part of the story. The changes humans have made to the landscape are certainly not good for the natural environment from a conservatory ethical viewpoint, but separating the effects of humans and the effects of natural geological/hydrological evolution of a continental river system (and global climate/environmental change) is easier said than done. The fundamental reason for this is because we lack “controls” to compare to.

    While there are numerous water quality issues within the Minnesota/Mississippi river basins that are directly related to agricultural and urban land use, we must remember that the water quality standards set by the clean water act are also anthropogenic in origin. Just because humans would like tap water quality in our rivers so that we can fish in /swim in /drink from them does not mean that this is always realistically possible or naturally optimal in any way. Just remember that our standards of clean water are biased for our aesthetic interests.

    The point I am trying to get across here is that there is a delicate balance between trying to curtail our impact on the fluvial landscape with green technologies (a GREAT thing) and fighting uphill battles against problems that we cannot and should not “win” due to our biased perception of their causes.

  • Island Station offers a wonderfull opportunity to restore a natural island, preserve history, and reconnect W 7th with the river. The National Park Service is interested in relocating on the river in the Historic Island Station building. What a great opportunity to bring the National Park Service to the waters edge. Any reuse of this site should include restoring the historic structure and the natural environment of the island. Another important consideration is reconnecting the island to the bluff and neighborhood on the bluff. Historically there was a creek and wetland on top of the bluff that feed into Fountain Cave from above and out through the cave to the river at Island Station. The entrance to the cave was covered by fill to build Shepard Road and the wetland and creek were drained into storm sewers. Fountain cave is historically significant. Fountain Cave should be reconnected to the riverfront and island. The wetland and creek should be restored as part of the effort to daylight creeks,filter storm water runoff, and provide habitat. Shepard Road was bent to go around the grain elevator at Randolph. That curve caused the filling in front of Fountain Cave. It also limited parkland on top of the bluff. When the grain elevators are removed the road can be straightened in that section allowing Fountain Cave to be reconnected and providing a much larger bluff top park area. The road would be reconstructed as a 35 mile per hour parkway where the elevators currently stand. The bluff top park would provide a valuable amenity for redevelopment of the brewery and Randolph. The bluff top park would connect the neighborhood to the riverfront and the island. The National Park Service at this location should include natural resource restoration of the island, cave, bluff and wetland as part of an educational program for park users. Having all of these natural resource elements in one location offers great opportunities for comprehensive education and enjoyment of what the river corridor offers. This could dramatically enhance how the neighborhood connects to the river and what kind of educational and recreational programs the National Park Service could provide on site. Natural resource restoration and recreational opportunities should be the focus of efforts on the river side of Shepard Road. Commercial and residential should be the focus of redevelopment on the 7th Street side of Shepard Road. In the flood plain restoring natural habitat should be maximized. Access to the water should be provided for fishing, swimming, kayaks and canoes.The National Park Service should offer programs that introduce and educate the public about natural resources and recreational opportunities in the park.

  • We have the Regional Headquarters for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources located in the river corridor at the Fish Hatchery. The DNR should be encouraged to develop an educational program at their site. There currently are wildflower displays that could be expanded and enhanced with signage to inform visitors. Tree idetification could be part of the program. The fish you see on display at the State Fair are kept at the Fish Hatchery site. Why not make them available for viewing when not at the Fair? This site has wetlands that could be part of an educational program on the value of protecting wetlands. The Consrvation Corp also works out of this site and could tell the story of the important work they do.

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